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My flakey Pro Fighter X 3-in-1

 
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amptor



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:58 am    Post subject: My flakey Pro Fighter X 3-in-1 Reply with quote

I forgot why it is called a 3-in-1 but I know it does super smartcard and SNES.

This pro fighter I tried to retension the edge connector on the bottom side and bent a few pins and I also used contact cleaner on the pins. It is just as difficult as ever to get it to work, even more so.

Edit: Wrong part, had to reorder from Arrow.com This part is non-stock at digikey.

Also a word of caution, this isn't going to be easy to desolder from the circuit board.

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Last edited by amptor on Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amptor



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't ordered the part yet. I have been scrounging around online to find spare main boards but I have found that is a bad idea.

Edited: arrow.com sells the part as well as Tototek. I'm sure that this is the problem with this backup unit in particular. This device looks like it was stored in someone's garage or maybe it was dug out of a dump in China. Either way, I expect to have more problems with it in the future and luckily at least all of the chips are socketed and probably can be replaced if it comes to that.

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Last edited by amptor on Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MottZilla



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 765

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think all the chips are replaceable though, doesn't it have an ASIC or some PALs?
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amptor



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MottZilla wrote:
I don't think all the chips are replaceable though, doesn't it have an ASIC or some PALs?


all the chips are socketed. the one I have open right now has a long goldstar chip that is also socketed.

my swc dx appears to be more proprietary than this pro fighter x. the pro fighter x appears to be very basic.

there is that random DD1 chip which I think is probably a DSP1 chip which some people claim is a "pirate dsp1" whatever that is supposed to mean. I used to think copiers with built in dsp1 capability had a genuine mario kart dsp1 chip preinstalled but possibly not?

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Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Location: Bangkok

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's called 3-in-1 for SNES + GB/GG with a Smart card

The DSP has been cloned soon enough after its release.
Not sure if it was decaped or if they figured out early it was a NEC µPD77C25 CPU variant.
To my knowledge only the UFO DSP adapter and some early DSP carts had original Nintendo chips inside.

This PFX has 2x40 custom logic chips.
One of my copiers has overheating issues with one of them and crash within a minute.
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RGB_Gamer



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 879

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a way to add DSP to a double pro fighter?
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amptor



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would the DSP chip have special software encoded into it or is it a direct swap with a Nintendo or NEC dsp chip?

Also do you mean the PFX has a 2 row x 40 pin logic chip by 2x40 custom logic chips? Or do you mean something else?

I'm thinking about documenting the chips on one of them but there's a possibility that I won't be able to figure out what some of the chips are. It's pretty easy to assume which one is the custom DSP1 chip though. Both of my pro fighter x copiers say something different on each DSP1 chip but it's more than likely the same thing.

I am just thinking that CCL didn't have enough technical capability to manufacture their own chips so I'm assuming that these are all off the shelf parts. I think the DSP1 chip inside it was just shaved off and then they wrote whatever they want on top of that chip.

And since they socketed the chips, for some reason I guess they wanted to etiher allow the end user to service the unit or more possibly they just wanted to make it easier to manufacture these by hand without worrying about burning the chip while soldering.

Mystic_Merlin wrote:
It's called 3-in-1 for SNES + GB/GG with a Smart card

The DSP has been cloned soon enough after its release.
Not sure if it was decaped or if they figured out early it was a NEC µPD77C25 CPU variant.
To my knowledge only the UFO DSP adapter and some early DSP carts had original Nintendo chips inside.

This PFX has 2x40 custom logic chips.
One of my copiers has overheating issues with one of them and crash within a minute.

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amptor



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I have some spare eeprom chips. I shouldn't have bought this 486 board from this really introverted guy on craigslist. But maybe I can use some of the chips on the board for something and possibly some of the sockets.

So basically why I shouldn't have bought it is because my coworker gave me two slot-1 motherboards and one socket 378 with a 486dx-4 100 chip on it (that is really cool, I mean for collectable). As well as they had some ISA slots on them that were in much better condition, practically brand new.

So I'm going to have to see if the BIOS chips on these can be reused/reprogrammed for copiers and I'm going to have to buy a programming kit from ebay. They are about 50 bucks for a USB one that supposedly is pretty versatile. I'll have to search for it again.

Still, as far as the ISA slots go, I'll probably order from digikey. I just will need to see what all I need to buy at the moment. I'll post back about the original issue once I swapped in a brand new ISA cardbus adapter slot Smile

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Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Location: Bangkok

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amptor wrote:
Would the DSP chip have special software encoded into it or is it a direct swap with a Nintendo or NEC dsp chip?

It has to be identical, I've never tried to swap with an original DSP but I guess it would work

amptor wrote:

Also do you mean the PFX has a 2 row x 40 pin logic chip by 2x40 custom logic chips?

Yes, serial EEPROMS I believe
amptor wrote:

I am just thinking that CCL didn't have enough technical capability to manufacture their own chips so I'm assuming that these are all off the shelf parts. I think the DSP1 chip inside it was just shaved off and then they wrote whatever they want on top of that chip.

I seriously doubt that, it would have cost a fortune and CCL was known to be the cheapest of all. Also I found those ICs with different ref. number in pretty much all the later copiers.
amptor wrote:

And since they socketed the chips, for some reason I guess they wanted to etiher allow the end user to service the unit or more possibly they just wanted to make it easier to manufacture these by hand without worrying about burning the chip while soldering.

I'd guess it had to do with the production line. All the custom logic ICs on the PFs regardless the model have handwritten numbers to id them.
Maybe to avoid piracy (ironic huh? Wink) they would have had their board manufactured and populated with passive components + sockets by one supplier and installed the rest in-house.
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amptor



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the card edge connector and I'll try to update this thread later when I'm assembling everything with photos. Edit: I ordered the wrong part initially.

Edit: edge connector part number is further into this thread. It comes with gold plated pins on the card edge side. The one I received was laser etch branded AMP which I believe is a subdivision of Tyco Electronics. Edit: new part I ordered is from a different manufacturer as stated later in this thread. These are gold plated nickel over copper.

I don't think the card itself is gold plated though.

Anyways hopefully this fixes it. I'm probably going to go ahead and replace all the capacitors on this thing and some or all of the screws. Second hand copiers definitely need work done to them.

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Last edited by amptor on Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amptor



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright well I ordered the wrong edge connector so at some point I should modify the above posts.

It is actually a 64-pin edge connector (2 rows x 32 pins) that I needed. I ordered a 62-pin edge connector.

Here's the right part:

10046971-001LF

or just get http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&products_id=76 This part says Genesis 64-pin but the pro fighter uses the identical slot for the edge connector from the snes to the pro fighter itself.

I ended up dremeling / cutting the card edge connector off of the pro fighter already and desoldering all of the pins. Then I checked with a continuity tester to make sure I didn't damage any of the traces. So far, so good.

I will have to come back and update after I get the right part installed. That will take a while since I have to order from a different supplier. It's going to cost another 12 bucks afaik. I can't find any shop that sells this connector cheap.

Edit: I got the part and it is the correct one but it doesn't grip the card edge as well as I had hoped a new part to. It should work though.

Does anyone know if the card edge is aluminum? It doesn't look gold. I'm not even sure if it is copper underneath and it might be solid aluminum edge connectors which can tend to oxidize. If it is nickel plated copper it shouldn't give me any trouble though.

I'm going to try to put the part on soon but I have misplaced my flux and my solder so I have to find that first.

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amptor



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I just finished soldering in the brand new edge connector and guess what:

It works.

No more fiddling with it for hours to get it to turn on!

This is what the problem was. When I plugged it into my deck to test it, it fired right up every time I powered on the system. I'm pretty amazed because it wasn't a very easy task to replace this part with what I have on hand.

Required tools:

Soldering iron (recommending 25W Weller. They sell these at Home Depot.)
Rosin core solder
Flux paste or liquid is fine. I found liquid was a lot less messy.
Cellulose sponge (this is dual purpose, you can use it to clean up the flux as well as keeping the iron properly tinned)
Mineral spirits (for cleaning paste flux)
Dremel tool (or hack saw if you can manage it without damaging anything)
Philips screwdriver for disassembly/reassembly
Flathead screwdriver for removing excess plastic


Here are the steps to follow:

1) Take apart Pro Fighter (uses standard philips screwdriver)
2) locate card edge connector
3) use a dremel disc tool and cut around the plastic nearby the main board and cut through all the connector pins
4) remove all the scraps and bits of plastic, may require breaking off the rest that is near the main board with a wedge shaped tool such as a flathead screwdriver
5) desolder and remove all the cut off pins
6) clean up each pin hole so you can see through them all. use desoldering pump and/or desoldering braid and flux
7) use sponge/water to clean up flux liquid or use mineral spirits to clean up excess flux paste
Cool Use your VOM on continuity/diode mode. Test every (all 64 pins) connection for continuity by tracing each pin hole to another spot on the circut board.
9) push in the new card edge connector
10) solder each pin of the edge connector
11) reassemble pro fighter

That's pretty much it. I couldn't see the oxidation on the card edge but basically that was the problem. The unit has rusted screws inside so I assume this was either pulled from an e-waste scrap yard or it was stored in someone's garage or some place that gets flooding.

I'm going to replace some more parts in it but for now it works perfect and better than when I received it in the mail.

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amptor



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok well the battle wasn't won yet. It started to flake out on me like crazy so here's how I fixed it:

Reseated all the ICs
When taking out the ICs, checked to see if any legs were oxidized
I found that the BIOS IC legs all had finger prints that were oxidized into it. So I had to take a permanent pen ink eraser and scrub all that off that I could. I reseated this chip back in.

Now I am also using Sega Genesis Model 1 a/c adapter (9V DC 1.2a)

NOW it works fine every time I turn it on and without any doubt.

I further found that the DRAM was faulty so I replaced it with a spare one from another pro fighter x. Unfortunately the other pro fighter doesn't have a test mode to see if the old DRAM works though.

Update I found the old DRAM board had one pin that had no solder at all in it and the pin next to it had solder on one side. I soldered these two pins and now that DRAM board tests fine. It is 60ns DRAM. Looks like some old cheap printer memory or something.

So I just ran super mario kart on it. It plays fine. And donkey kong country has a ton of graphics errors and crashes. This copier might not be compatible with rare copy protection anyway. I'll have to do more testing. Maybe if I swap the other ram board back in the game will work fine.

Well at least I don't have to order more chips for this thing. So I can quickly move on to another project.

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amptor



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just tested a new cracked copy of Donkey Kong Country on this thing. This works 100% properly now.

So much for flakey pro fighter 3-in-1. It is no longer flakey at all Smile It boots up every time and has no RAM errors and doesn't freeze.

Next thing to do is to swap out the bios chip with a new one and probably replace all the old electrolytic capacitors on it with new. Pretty easy to do.

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