ToToTEK.COM Forum Index ToToTEK.COM
Help & Support Forum
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Game Doctor CD Thread (CD7, CR523B, CR562J, CR563B)

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ToToTEK.COM Forum Index -> Copiers and Hardware
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Location: Bangkok

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:01 am    Post subject: The Game Doctor CD Thread (CD7, CR523B, CR562J, CR563B) Reply with quote

I just got Game Doctor CD7 for the GDSF7. The drive is in a pretty bad shape so it's gonna need a lot of care and fixing before I even get to test it.
In the meantime I've been searching on Tototek/Google for info on it and there's not much about it. I thought it would be nice to centralize all the information on a single thread.

The different models
First of all there are 2 types of CD-ROM available: the caddy one and the tray one.
The caddy one is an early 1x drive based on the CR523B and is compatible with the GDSF3, GDSF6 and GDSF7
The tray version uses a 2x drive, either a CR562 or CR563 and is only compatible with the GDSF7 (and GDSF6?).
All the drives use the MKE or SLCD interface which is a short lived 8bit protocol.
The only info I could find about it is here:
https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~theom/electronics/panasoniccd.html
These MKE drives are pretty rare these days and were used on PC via a Sound Blaster interface. I still have a CR-563-B on my first 486.

The CD7 PCB also has a 34 pin slot connector for a Sony Drive but there's no information about it. A quick Google search led to a Sony CDU-33A, also an 8 Bit CD DRIVE that needed a proprietary ISA card or a Sound Card interface on PC.

If you look at offset &32D8 in the GDSF7 7.11 Bios you will see clear text referencing those 3 drives:
- For Sony
- For 523B Drive
- For 562B Drive
Also a bit further you'll notice:
- File No:
- SONG NO:
I wasn't aware the CD7 can play music but apparently the function is available in the BIOS, probably some CDDA.

Burning CDs
- disc must be a mode 1 ISO9660 disc with 8.3 filenames.
- all roms have to be in the root folder.
- games have to be in GD-Format
- you can also put PCX files in 256x224

Apparently CDR must be burnt at low speed and preferably have a gold bottom layer.

MKE ODE
In an old TTK thread, kyuusaku mentionned that there are very few chances this protocol may ever be reversed engineered and he was most definitely right at the time considering the size of the market.
That is until I realized the 3DO consoles also use the MKE protocol and there are at least 2 ODE available for the FZ-1:
http://3do-mnemo.com/
https://3dodev.com/documentation/ode
These won't be a drop in replacement but we're getting closer, especially if it's open source.

Here I'm attaching a few useful things. Don't hesitate to add some.



GUI.jpg
 Description:
The CD being accessed on a CR523B
 Filesize:  132.71 KB
 Viewed:  10615 Time(s)

GUI.jpg



pinout.jpg
 Description:
V64 / CD7 PSU pinout
 Filesize:  33.7 KB
 Viewed:  10615 Time(s)

pinout.jpg



cd7pcbback.jpg
 Description:
CD7 PCB - Back
Only the DB25 and the 4 pin mini-din PSU ports are populated on this side
 Filesize:  87.63 KB
 Viewed:  10615 Time(s)

cd7pcbback.jpg



cd7pcbfront.jpg
 Description:
CD7 PCB - Front
S1 is bridged on pin 1&2
S2 is bridged on pin 2&3
Only C2, U4,CON1 and the CON4 are populated on this side
 Filesize:  98.03 KB
 Viewed:  10615 Time(s)

cd7pcbfront.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NorQue



Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I distantly remember seeing some schematics, but the closest I could find is this post. The PCBs used to be available until not too long ago at Tomys colleagues site here and here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Location: Bangkok

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're talking about the CD Clone made by The Dumper?
Here I attached it but I had to resize the .jpg to fit in the upload size limit.

I just had a look at the GDSF3 and GDS6 bios. Unsurprisingly there's no reference to the CD-ROM in the GDSF3 bios as all the instructions must be in the bios of the parallel adapter. I'll dump this one at some point.
As for the GDSF6, there's only a reference to the CR523B which suggests it would be the only drive compatible with this model.



cd7cloneB.zip
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  cd7cloneB.zip
 Filesize:  140.71 KB
 Downloaded:  329 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MottZilla



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 765

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine if it weren't for all the great relatively cheap flash carts someone would have reverse engineered the protocol by now to hooked some other storage device.

I've thought about getting the appropriate drive before and building my own interface. But usually the drives aren't cheap. I imagine it would be possible to using modern devices translate between the MKE/Panasonic interface and something more readily available to read a cd-rom or emulated cd-rom via an ISO.

Maybe there is another reason for why you couldn't hookup a USB optical drive through a device like a FPGA and make it work, but I think the reason we haven't seen it is certainly a lack of motivation. It's been well over a decade since these old Copiers were the go to way to play ROMs on real hardware.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Location: Bangkok

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey MottZilla, nice to see you around Wink

As usual for this type of old gear, the main purpose is to document and keep them running, not so much about a daily usage.
As I mentioned earlier, the MKE protocol has already been reverse engineered since those ODE for the 3DO are commercialized; it wouldn't take much to adapt them for the CD7.

I already spent quite some time on the CR-562J and learnt some interesting things as most of the mechanical parts are identical to the FZ-10 CD drive. If I can salvage the driver board, I hope to revive it.
Just to be sure I got a 2nd FZ-10 for cheap and I brought back a CR-562B I kept in my basement many years ago.
I'll report my findings when I finish this restoration.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
system64



Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know if GDSF3, 6, 7 are compatible with CR-521
and/or CR-522 drives?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Location: Bangkok

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

system64 wrote:
Does anyone know if GDSF3, 6, 7 are compatible with CR-521
and/or CR-522 drives?


They could work as a 523, usually there are minor modifications between those but you might have to use the ROM from a CR-523
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NorQue



Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's one on Ebay right now CIB for the ridiculously low price of just 1,050.00 CAD/778.21 USD. Just in case someone is feeling generous and wants to help Mystic_Merlins research...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Location: Bangkok

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NorQue wrote:
There's one on Ebay right now CIB for the ridiculously low price of just 1,050.00 CAD/778.21 USD. Just in case someone is feeling generous and wants to help Mystic_Merlins research...


Laughing Laughing
I'm currently in France for a few days and I also came across a few copier ads on eBay. Prices are really ridiculous compared to Asia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
borgdude



Joined: 10 Dec 2020
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you handle hirom games? They don't seem to work. I am batch converting the games with this command. ucon64 -k --nbak --gd3 --idnum=1 "ActRaiser 2 (USA).sfc"
_________________
Looking for a Super Wildcard DX2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
system64



Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a problem with my Game Doctor CD7.

I have a disc with 845 files from SF4001 to SF8619. It does load the files with small numbers fine, but files with higher numbers do not load, instead I get the message: Disk Format error!

Does anyone know the limitations of a CD for the Game Doctor?
I know it's limited to 8.3 characters.
Is there a maximum file limit or file per folder limit or total size limit?

I can only load games up to SF8110.

UPDATE:
I've swapped the CD drive and got better results, but still not satisfying.
A shorter Parallel cable helped a bit as well.

In the end I've got it fully working:
I used the cheapest CD-R I had in my collection and burned it at the maximum speed. Game Doctor can read the whole disc filled up with 702 megabytes of data now. incredible!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
borgdude



Joined: 10 Dec 2020
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

system64 wrote:
I have a problem with my Game Doctor CD7.

I have a disc with 845 files from SF4001 to SF8619. It does load the files with small numbers fine, but files with higher numbers do not load, instead I get the message: Disk Format error!

Does anyone know the limitations of a CD for the Game Doctor?
I know it's limited to 8.3 characters.
Is there a maximum file limit or file per folder limit or total size limit?

I can only load games up to SF8110.

UPDATE:
I've swapped the CD drive and got better results, but still not satisfying.
A shorter Parallel cable helped a bit as well.

In the end I've got it fully working:
I used the cheapest CD-R I had in my collection and burned it at the maximum speed. Game Doctor can read the whole disc filled up with 702 megabytes of data now. incredible!


How did you convert your roms? also, do you know how to get hirom games to work or do they just work for you?

_________________
Looking for a Super Wildcard DX2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NorQue



Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ucon64 converts these. The GDSF7 is a copier from late in the SNES-era and does not have any kind of LoROM/HiROM problems.

Regarding your previous post, I've made the experience that leaving out the -k switch and only using it when needed works much better. GDSF7 rarely needs it, anyways, if at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
system64



Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've aquired a CR-523B from Creative a few days ago.

I do not have the original enclosure nor the pcb for the CR-523B.

However I have a selfmade pcb with the LS244 chip. This pcb does work fine with my GDSF7 and a CR-562B drive.

I've connected the CR-523B instead of the 562B drive. Unfortunately the GDSF7 does not detect it. There isn't even a message on the screen. It just freezes.

I've tried with a GDSF6, it says linking... but nothing happens.

Same issue with a GDSF3.

Does the CR-523B require the original enclosure from Multi-System Technology with the Kingbyte chipset? https://www.tototek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11019
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ToToTEK.COM Forum Index -> Copiers and Hardware All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group