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madman
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 598
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 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yea, but the data stored on a Commodore 64 tape is square wave and you can make an analog copy of those in a tape deck and load them.
What really needs to be done is just re-writing the existing FDSloadr code to run under current Windows revs using one of the IO DLLs. I had started doing this as I was re-writing Tomy's MGD1 util, but have since boxed my FDS stuff up and put it back in the closet. |
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kyuusaku
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 941
Location: .ma.us
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| rbudrick wrote: | | To manufacture a USB version of FDSLoadr cables and rewrite the software is a pain, and professionally manufacturing them would be expensive, but aren't USB tranceivers rather cheap nowdays? Aside from the software issue, couldn't a hobbyist build one rather cheaply given the proper schematics? |
Yeah, microcontrollers with USB can be pretty cheap, but I don't know where to get one with 65K of free space to hold a disk side. I'm sure they'll be really cheap someday but not now.
| madman wrote: | | What really needs to be done is just re-writing the existing FDSloadr code to run under current Windows revs using one of the IO DLLs. I had started doing this as I was re-writing Tomy's MGD1 util, but have since boxed my FDS stuff up and put it back in the closet. |
It's not that easy, FDSLoadr requires an incredible amount of timer precision to service the parallel port at 96kHz, it needs to be running in real time hence DOS. |
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rbudrick
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| madman wrote: | Yea, but the data stored on a Commodore 64 tape is square wave and you can make an analog copy of those in a tape deck and load them.
What really needs to be done is just re-writing the existing FDSloadr code to run under current Windows revs using one of the IO DLLs. I had started doing this as I was re-writing Tomy's MGD1 util, but have since boxed my FDS stuff up and put it back in the closet. |
Well, when you put it that way, all digital data storage formats are analog, heh heh.  As long as the 0s and 1s are still represented on an analog format, it's still digital. Take old audio tapes or vinyl records (wth the exception of the rare format of digital vinyls)...that was pure analog.
| Quote: | | Yeah, microcontrollers with USB can be pretty cheap, but I don't know where to get one with 65K of free space to hold a disk side. I'm sure they'll be really cheap someday but not now. |
Can such microontrollers be paired ala RAM? For example, get smaller ones in parallel for extra storage? Or maybe paired with actual ram? With a fast enough bus on an external devicewith the logic contained, I would fathom the timing issues could be sorted out.
| Quote: | | It's not that easy, FDSLoadr requires an incredible amount of timer precision to service the parallel port at 96kHz, it needs to be running in real time hence DOS. |
Yes, it could be much easier to implement as a standalone device with all the logic contained than to flat-out convert FDSLoadr to USB. The PC would virtually be a frontend displayer in this case, along with a permanent storage. Actually, didn't you say you were working on a similar device a year or two ago? Or was that Tomy?
So Madman, why the surrender?  BTW, do you have that MGD to FDS utility finished?
One more thing...I own a Sharp MZ-1500, which had a QD drive, and I know someone figured out how to use that for FDS backup...sw a pic of an FDS drive hooked up to the unit online once. I also have a MSX II Turbo R+ Quickdisk drive. I heard rumors of folks backing up FDS with that too. I have theories that the actual drive modules within all QD devices and/or their ports which connect them to the rest of their units are identical. My MZ and my MSX 2 are BURIED right now, so I am not able to take them apart to look, but I'd love to compare the ports on these where ribbon cables connect. I think this may provide another way around opening the disks or modding quickdisks.
-Rob |
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kyuusaku
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 941
Location: .ma.us
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| rbudrick wrote: | | Well, when you put it that way, all digital data storage formats are analog, heh heh. :wink: As long as the 0s and 1s are still represented on an analog format, it's still digital. Take old audio tapes or vinyl records (wth the exception of the rare format of digital vinyls)...that was pure analog. |
But the digital data on cassette tapes isn't just a high signal, low signal etc, it's encoded with FSK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_standard
| Quote: | | Can such microontrollers be paired ala RAM? For example, get smaller ones in parallel for extra storage? Or maybe paired with actual ram? With a fast enough bus on an external devicewith the logic contained, I would fathom the timing issues could be sorted out. |
Sure but it sort of defeats the purpose. It won't be that long before 128KiB of work RAM becomes standard. Right now good MCU have 8KiB of RAM.
| Quote: | | Yes, it could be much easier to implement as a standalone device with all the logic contained than to flat-out convert FDSLoadr to USB. |
Flat out converting isn't even possible since USB has far too much latency.
| Quote: | | The PC would virtually be a frontend displayer in this case, along with a permanent storage. Actually, didn't you say you were working on a similar device a year or two ago? Or was that Tomy? |
Nah, the device I made used the FC connector + RAM adapter. The idea was to set up the FDS adapter to read a disk then poll for the bytes, I haven't got it working yet though since emulators don't emulate the FDS properly. Since then I've started another project which doesn't use any hardware but a FDS disk with dumping program and a parallel cable that hooks to the expansion connector :) That one is in the same boat as the other project though.
Tomy's device was going to be an adapter thing with onboard hacked Copy Master that could communicate with a PC. |
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rbudrick
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh, I see. That makes a lot of sense. I didn't realize they were using simple sine waves.
| Quote: | | Sure but it sort of defeats the purpose. It won't be that long before 128KiB of work RAM becomes standard. Right now good MCU have 8KiB of RAM. |
Does it defeat the purpose if the outcome is what you want? is 128KiB enough?
| Quote: | | Flat out converting isn't even possible since USB has far too much latency. |
Even if the PC isn't doing the timing work? Say if FDS Loader were converted to be contained in the device ala Tomy's method with Copy Master?
-Rob |
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madman
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob, I'm pretty sure I finished the MGD<->FDS utils. I never made them into a single exe, or maybe I did. I can't recall if I ever did the two sided disks->single FDS image or not. |
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rbudrick
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Rob, I'm pretty sure I finished the MGD<->FDS utils. I never made them into a single exe, or maybe I did. I can't recall if I ever did the two sided disks->single FDS image or not. |
Well, do you take bribes? It'd be awesome to see a finished program.
-Rob |
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madman
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Rob, shoot me an email if you still have my address. |
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kazmat
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Hi madman
I am interested in your MGD<->FDS utils too.
I would like to try. |
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RGB_Gamer
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 879
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| How can i tell if I have a 7201 FDS drive or not and if not, how do I modify it to act as a 7201 FDS drive? Is it true that even if it is a 7201 drive, it requires further modification? |
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madman
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| If you look inside the FDS and there's a chip that says 7201 on it, you have a 7201 FDS. If you look inside the FDS and there's a chip that says 3206 on it, you have a 3206 drive. Your other questions have been answered here already. |
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RGB_Gamer
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 879
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| madman wrote: | | If you look inside the FDS and there's a chip that says 7201 on it, you have a 7201 FDS. If you look inside the FDS and there's a chip that says 3206 on it, you have a 3206 drive. Your other questions have been answered here already. |
i went through the entire 9 pages of this thread and I didn't see a link, picture, or tutorial on modding an FDS for write capability |
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madman
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| That's odd, on the first page here I see a link to a zip file called fdscopy.zip that is described as having write mod instructions. |
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RGB_Gamer
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 879
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| madman wrote: | | That's odd, on the first page here I see a link to a zip file called fdscopy.zip that is described as having write mod instructions. |
I see it too, but it may as well not even be there since it's all in japanese. |
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madman
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Here's another hint: Read the only other stickied topic here. |
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