ToToTEK.COM

[DragonBoy1]

Wouldn't be nice to have a neo geo mvs to aes converter just like Phantom http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/5767965/Adaptateur-Neogeo-Phantom-1-Accessoire-Neogeo-Cartouche.html

that way we can buy the much cheaper mvs games and play on the AES systems

[kyuusaku]

[rbudrick]

I thought the Phantom1 units were no longer in production. Plus, they usually run at least $279. I imagine there's a massive profit margin on those, which I've always regarded as rather fishy, as though Neo gamers were being gouged for their spending habits. A less expensive and more accurate converter would be realy ccol to have.

I've never opened one though...I never realized they were that complex...in what way are they more complex than your average coverter?

-Rob

[kyuusaku]

They're complex because the character boards are slightly incompatible, IIRC NGH expect multiplexed C ROMs. Also the converter probably needs multiple states to thwart protection.

[rbudrick]

Ok, gotcha. Perhaps one could write a Bios for a converter like this rahther than straight components to recognize whatever cart is in there and execute it properly...I guess some might say that sort of borders some sort of emulation, but not really. It would take a pretty dedicated Neo fan to do that...but who are more dedicated than Neo fans!

I guess the same reason you stated, Kyuusaku, is why it's difficult to make a Neo flash cart?

-Rob

[kyuusaku]

It doesn't need a BIOS, it's all logic. The Phantom-1 is way under the complexity of a flashcart. The reason why it's hard to make a Neo Flashcart is because Neo games are just so, well, beefy. Still it's nothing that'd make a professional engineer sweat.

<tangent>A Neo "flash"cart (DRAM would be a better choice here) would have to be able to manage I believe a minimum of 3 buses, I believe there's one for the 68000, one for the Z80 and one for the VDP. That's 3 memory groups (for lack of a better word) with different widths for the device to watch/program/control, also the design has to be reconfigurable or at least must have all the necessary memory maps/bankswitch schemes in the state machine. That's asking quite a lot since you have to use 5V compatible hardware, it's rather the same dilemma that people are having with a NES flashcart, except NES is 50 times more documented than Neo...</tangent>

[DragonBoy]

Hey, Have a look at this http://www.neoflash.com/forum/index.php/topic,1377.0.html

Happy new year by the way

[rbudrick]

[kyuusaku]

It's not the first time someones made a Phantom like converter, it's the first time someone synthesized one though I think. I'm not sure what the CPLD is emulating though, either CMC (like the Phantom) or just the old ZMC2 chip. Since they don't need to sacrifice a game for the CMC chip now, this converter better be ~$50 unlike the Phantom!

It's funny that this project surfaces because I've been spent the last week lightly studying Neo Geo hardware. I'll be one of the first to buy one to furthur my Neo HW development if the price is reasonable.

I have some serious doubts about them pulling off a flash cart though, for those that don't know, Neo Geo doesn't have a single rom bus like other systems, it has 5! Two of those are 16 bit, two are 8bit and the last is 32bit! The thing is though that data is multiplexed across the buses so it may be possible to emulate "only" 3 of them. Still that's one hell of a task. I have a strategy though that uses only one bus, but that's secret :P

[kyuusaku]

Got the word that it's going to be $299! Gimme a break, they don't even need to sacrifice a game :\

[rbudrick]

God, they should at least make it cheaper than the Phantom. That's an insane amount of profit, given the cost of production being sooooo much lower than a Phantom. I guess they think Neo Geo fans are completely stupid.

-Rob

[kyuusaku]

Well, they are, ever been to neo-geo.com? :)

This page: http://www.nds2.com/chi/neogeo.htm Suggests that it will cost 7500 taiwan dollars which is $230 something. Also I see that there are more IC than the one CPLD, guess both boards have some logic (2 other CPLD and a SRAM on CHA board?). Maybe it costs $45 to build now :P I give them some credit, it's definately different than the Phantom-1. I'm not sure what this can play that the Phantom can't though. I'd be more inclined to pay $299 for the schematics and logic.

Also found out that Neoflash's new PCE unit is the same as one that's been out for a year or more in Taiwan (& sold in Japan for a while) makes me wonder if Neoflash is even behind the new products.