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Star Ocean, Eh?

 
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rpetrello



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject: Star Ocean, Eh? Reply with quote

I'm aware that it can be done with the Game Doctor and other types of backup machines, but does anybody know if it is possible to run a translated Star Ocean ROM on the SuperFlash cart, or any other similar cart for that matter? I'm completely new to all of this; while I've done some reading up, I have very little to no knowledge of how ROM's work, or how to "hack" them. I'm just a fan of old SNES RPG's who unforunately doesn't know Japanese!

- Is there any way to decompress the S-DD1 chip and include all the files on the FlashCart?

- Can you actually purchase an S-DD1 chip somewhere/are there SuperFlash carts that have S-DD1 chips?

- Is there any documentation anywhere that specifically addresses peoples' attempts at running translated Star Ocean on the SNES (not on computer emulators, but rather directly through a Flash cart of some sort)

- Should I just give up and cry?

Thanks for any help. Any comments/ideas/info on how I might go about getting Star Ocean or an implentation of the S-DD1 chip to work on an actual SNES would be greatly appreciated.
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syd



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neviksti says it's feasible to get Star Ocean working on a 64mb Super Flash Cart in this topic:

http://tototek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=357

I've sent him a PM on the snes9x board regarding getting his work but he hasn't gotten back to me yet. He's probably busy with school again as usual so he might be a while! Smile
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rpetrello



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:30 pm    Post subject: Hrm Reply with quote

I had noticed this as well, but as described, I have close to zero knowledge of ROM's and their workings. If there is a possible way out there to get Star Ocean running on a 64M cart, I'd be extremely grateful to anybody with knowledge about it.
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neviksti



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

syd wrote:
Neviksti says it's feasible to get Star Ocean working on a 64mb Super Flash Cart in this topic:

http://tototek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=357


Unfortunately, as I mention here:
http://tototek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2111
or here
http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=734&start=19

there is a bug in the SuperFlash memory mapping that makes you not be able to use 4Mbits of a 64Mbit game. This is a big blow considering the data would need to be compresseed to fit it in the cartridge. It would be hard to fit in 64Mbits ... but you'll definitely have a tough time with 512kBytes less of rom space (not sure if you can even do it without affecting gameplay).

As mentioned in that thread above, the CPLD can be reprogrammed though. So maybe this can be fixed. I started to rewrite the CPLD logic, but got sidetracked onto other projects (if someone else tries to work on the CPLD stuff, I should warn you that there appears to be an error in the datasheet for that piece concerning the foldbacks for a cell ... it claims there aren't any. Maybe they've updated it by now, but thought I should mention it just in case.)
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eggba



Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neviksti wrote:
syd wrote:
Neviksti says it's feasible to get Star Ocean working on a 64mb Super Flash Cart in this topic:

http://tototek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=357


Unfortunately, as I mention here:
http://tototek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2111
or here
http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=734&start=19

there is a bug in the SuperFlash memory mapping that makes you not be able to use 4Mbits of a 64Mbit game. This is a big blow considering the data would need to be compresseed to fit it in the cartridge. It would be hard to fit in 64Mbits ... but you'll definitely have a tough time with 512kBytes less of rom space (not sure if you can even do it without affecting gameplay).

As mentioned in that thread above, the CPLD can be reprogrammed though. So maybe this can be fixed. I started to rewrite the CPLD logic, but got sidetracked onto other projects (if someone else tries to work on the CPLD stuff, I should warn you that there appears to be an error in the datasheet for that piece concerning the foldbacks for a cell ... it claims there aren't any. Maybe they've updated it by now, but thought I should mention it just in case.)


Any news on this? Being able to play Star Ocean in English on a cartridge on original hardware using the TigerSoft flash would be awsome!

neviksti ?

here is an old post from a few years back. http://www.tototek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=357

Here are the essentials:

neviksti wrote:
You can already play StarOcean (translated) on the SNES with hardware from tototek.


Yes, it appears technically possible to get this to work for a 64Mbit cartridge / copier.

Honestly, unless problems arise (which often happens), it would only take one hard weekend, or a decent week's worth to complete it for 64Mbits.


So, if anyone would could spend "one hard weekend, or a decent week" we would all be forever grateful!
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MottZilla



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 765

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone? Sure anyone could donate their time. Unfortunately the person required needs to have skills like neviksti has and people like that whom are interested in doing it are clearly in short supply. It would be neat to see it done though.
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eggba



Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MottZilla wrote:
Anyone? Sure anyone could donate their time. Unfortunately the person required needs to have skills like neviksti has and people like that whom are interested in doing it are clearly in short supply. It would be neat to see it done though.


Hehe. Yes, I know anyone can't do this. I'm hinting towards neviksti to do it Very Happy

No, seriously. If someone were to accomplish this it would be an awsome achivement.
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neviksti



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the project went perfectly smoothly, I may have all the skills necessary to do this ... however such projects rarely do, so I probably do not. Regardless, I don't have all the tools necessary (JTAG programmer).

It is going to be very difficult to get people to put a lot of effort into this. One, because you can already play it on an emulator, and for those that want to play it on the real system, you can already do that as well with no hardware skill needed (use a game doctor SF7). Second, this effort would only help one game, and no other... and if you want one game only, you might as well just do a cart hack for that one game (there are instructions on the internet).

So you are asking for an incredibly rare breed here. And even more specifically, it must work on a flash cartridge which has been shown to have a flaw in its memory map ... so we first need to fix that. It is going to be difficult to find someone willing to overlook all of that.

There are two kinds of people that work on stuff like this (not exclusive of course):
- do it for the love of the game (and the love of 'projects') so more people can enjoy it
- do it for curiousity of how things work and what is possible (and the love of 'projects')


You may be surprised to hear that I never played StarOcean. I spent a ridiculous amount of time on that project because I was learning more about the SF7 and the SDD1, and was curious if it was possible. There are some rom-hacking details I never figured out about the StarOcean code that I kept trying to work on for awhile after that out of curiousity (like a big puzzle!) but I eventually got sucked away on other side projects. At this point, I'm convinced I will never figure out enough of the code to know all the details of that puzzle (and you'll probably not find anyone willing to track that down either, but it would be awesome if you did ... to me at least). So there is no fun left in it for me, and given the stuff above, I don't really feel it would be worth it either. Sorry.


If you two have any C/C++ knowledge, you two can probably do a bunch of the work yourself. You don't need to figure out that "big puzzle" I alluded to above to get this thing to work (as is clear from the fact that it works on the SF7). The SDD1 graphics encoding/decoding is understood and already written up in C++ code by Andreas (also the emu authors have code for the decoding). The SDD1 chip does two things: memory mapping changes, and decompression of rom data. I've made a hack that removes the need for these features. For the decompression part, I just use, essentially, a huge look up table of all the data pre-decompressed (not very imaginative, I know). I made these by using the data from the 'data packs' emulators used to use for the same task. The details of my implementation are not necessary at this point. If you just use the C/C++ code to determine which parts of the pack are likely to be fake (I believe some large entries are false), and also to see how much (and where) in the rom all the compressed data is ... you yourself could figure out how feasible this project is!. And all you need is C/C++ skills.

If you two are interested enough to do those tasks, you will probably be much more lucky in trying to find other people to finish the other tasks. -If you can approach a rom-hacker saying "I've done YYY, so I know it is possible to do ZZZ, and I already have a base hack to work off of and just need help inserting the data..." You will most likely be much more successful. However, if it turns out some compression is necessary, I don't currently have the skills you need ... and you'll have to talk to some rom-hackers knowledgeable with such tricks, and also much more code snooping would be required. That is the real kicker to me (and probably others), much time could be sunk before realizing what you've really bit into.

So that is my honest suggestion. If you love the game that much, try doing some of the investigation as far as you can, and enjoy the trip yourself. By the time you need more than just some C/C++ skills, you'll know how feasible this project really is.
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eggba



Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Neviksti for taking your time to write this honest reply. Unfortunately my C/C++ skills are extreamly limited, boarding to non existent.

I agree with you that it would be very difficult to get people to put a lot of effort into this besause of the reasons you stated. I wont hold my breath but I'll keep my fingers crossed Smile

Anyway, thank you for your time and for you previous work on Star Ocean. Good luck on your other projects!
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