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SmartDisc-FX32-UFO

 
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Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 533
Location: Bangkok
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:11 am    Post subject: SmartDisc-FX32-UFO Reply with quote
Shopping has been good this week end, I found 3 new copiers to add to my collection


1) The Smart Disc seems to be a Pro Fighter X clone (if anybody knows what version...). It has a Super Smart card slot on the side.
Although the CCL stickers were still on when I got it, something was "floating" inside...the ram board actually! You'll notice how weird...they soldered the components on the wrong side. Still, with this capacitor on the way, it does clip properly...go figure!

At first I had some problem starting the machine, getting some garbage on the screen. Then I realized it had to be powered via a PSU to start. It does not have any battery so I guess that such as the GDSFs, it keeps the SRAM stored with a capacitor.

I also have seen a newer version of this Smart Disc with a slightly different board and a bios v6.0 which I guess is the Pro Fighter X Turbo ?







2) The UFO PRO6
Actually, I really bought this one coz it was dirt cheap. I already got 3 UFO Hyperversion. This one is an early revision with a much simpler menu, super magicom style. The board is the same, only difference are 2 caps and the bottom part which is soldered, so you can't swap it with the DSP cart as in the Hyperversion.
One interesting detail is that the CIC is labelled 74LS112...would it mean that a CIC is actually a "DUAL J-K NEGATIVE-EDGE-TRIGGERED FLIP-FLOPS WITH PRESET AND CLEAR" or that this one tricks the one in the console believing it is a corresponding CIC?




3) The FX-32
This one is interesting. I have 3 SPFQ but this one is a newer revision obviously. No more lousy wire on the bottom PCB side, DSP support, no more battery...I didn't expect that many changes.
One problem though, and I'M GONNA NEED SOME HELP Wink

It seems that this unit has been ripped off a few components.
While it does work properly, I can't transfer via UCON64 and I believe the missing LS245 is the problem.
Now prior to replacing these ICs I need to make sure the available references at my electronic shop are good

Can I replace the LS245 with a SN74LS245N?
Can I replace the 16v8 with a GAL16V8D-25LP?

Obviously the DIP28 next to the floppy controller is the missing DSP, but it's no big deal.





Thanks for any help!
BTW, what is the TRAM for?
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kyuusaku



Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 941
Location: .ma.us
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: SmartDisc-FX32-UFO Reply with quote
Mystic_Merlin wrote:
it keeps the SRAM stored with a capacitor.
I think it's a battery, just in another package.

Quote:
One interesting detail is that the CIC is labelled 74LS112...would it mean that a CIC is actually a "DUAL J-K NEGATIVE-EDGE-TRIGGERED FLIP-FLOPS WITH PRESET AND CLEAR" or that this one tricks the one in the console believing it is a corresponding CIC?
No it's not a 74LS112, they just spoofed the name to conceal it's function, there are no off the shelf parts that are compatible with the CIC. The CIC is a 4-bit microprocessor running custom code.

Quote:
Can I replace the LS245 with a SN74LS245N?
Yes.

Quote:
Can I replace the 16v8 with a GAL16V8D-25LP?
Yes but no. You can use any PAL or GAL, but it needs to be programmed with custom logic. If you don't have this, there's no point in fitting the '245. I think Tomy is the only person here with it.

Quote:
BTW, what is the TRAM for?
Real time save.
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Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 533
Location: Bangkok
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:48 am    Post subject: Re: SmartDisc-FX32-UFO Reply with quote
kyuusaku wrote:
Mystic_Merlin wrote:
it keeps the SRAM stored with a capacitor.
I think it's a battery, just in another package.

Quote:
One interesting detail is that the CIC is labelled 74LS112...would it mean that a CIC is actually a "DUAL J-K NEGATIVE-EDGE-TRIGGERED FLIP-FLOPS WITH PRESET AND CLEAR" or that this one tricks the one in the console believing it is a corresponding CIC?
No it's not a 74LS112, they just spoofed the name to conceal it's function, there are no off the shelf parts that are compatible with the CIC. The CIC is a 4-bit microprocessor running custom code.

Quote:
Can I replace the LS245 with a SN74LS245N?
Yes.

Quote:
Can I replace the 16v8 with a GAL16V8D-25LP?
Yes but no. You can use any PAL or GAL, but it needs to be programmed with custom logic. If you don't have this, there's no point in fitting the '245. I think Tomy is the only person here with it.

Quote:
BTW, what is the TRAM for?
Real time save.


Wow, Thanks Kyuusaku, that's another precise and fast reply Very Happy

I see for the 16V8, the guy obviously knew what he was doing when he took off these ICs...any chance there's actually one on the UFO board that is programmed with the same logic?
Any risk trying fitting different 16V8 from other copiers board?
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kyuusaku



Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 941
Location: .ma.us
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: SmartDisc-FX32-UFO Reply with quote
Quote:
I see for the 16V8, the guy obviously knew what he was doing when he took off these ICs...

I don't think anyone took them off, just that someone installed the DB25 connector without installing the chips for the parallel port. It's probable that your UFO6 also needs missing chips for it's parallel port as it's a Pro Fighter clone as well. (Also dunno if I'd call the Super Smart Disc a clone as it appears to be 100% original parts.)

Quote:
any chance there's actually one on the UFO board that is programmed with the same logic?

No chance the UFO GALs will be the same but IIRC the logic in the Pro Fighter parallel cart is the same/compatible.

Quote:
Any risk trying fitting different 16V8 from other copiers board?
Yes there's risk because the pins of the chip can be configured as inputs or outputs. If you switch a chip where a pin is an input with one where it's an output, that will short the pin damaging the GAL and the other IC output it's connected to. There's no point anyways since programmable logic generally won't be compatible from model to model much less vendor to vendor.
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Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 533
Location: Bangkok
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: SmartDisc-FX32-UFO Reply with quote
kyuusaku wrote:
Quote:
I see for the 16V8, the guy obviously knew what he was doing when he took off these ICs...

I don't think anyone took them off, just that someone installed the DB25 connector without installing the chips for the parallel port. It's probable that your UFO6 also needs missing chips for it's parallel port as it's a Pro Fighter clone as well. (Also dunno if I'd call the Super Smart Disc a clone as it appears to be 100% original parts.)

Quote:
any chance there's actually one on the UFO board that is programmed with the same logic?

No chance the UFO GALs will be the same but IIRC the logic in the Pro Fighter parallel cart is the same/compatible.

Quote:
Any risk trying fitting different 16V8 from other copiers board?
Yes there's risk because the pins of the chip can be configured as inputs or outputs. If you switch a chip where a pin is an input with one where it's an output, that will short the pin damaging the GAL and the other IC output it's connected to. There's no point anyways since programmable logic generally won't be compatible from model to model much less vendor to vendor.


OK I understand PALs and GALs are quite complex programmable chips.
I thought about using the ones on my SPFQ but even these might be programmed differently since the layout of the board is...

Stop me if I'm wrong but the best solution would be:
1) get another FX32 with the missing PAL
2) dump the PAL with a programmer and copy it to a 16V8

Trying anything else without documentation on the device would be like playing to the lottery, right?

A bit far stretched...thanks anyway for taking the time to explain such in details, very kind of you Very Happy
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kyuusaku



Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 941
Location: .ma.us
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: SmartDisc-FX32-UFO Reply with quote
Mystic_Merlin wrote:
OK I understand PALs and GALs are quite complex programmable chips.
I thought about using the ones on my SPFQ but even these might be programmed differently since the layout of the board is...
I would guess it's the same, the circuit looks to be identical.

Quote:
Stop me if I'm wrong but the best solution would be:
1) get another FX32 with the missing PAL
This could be extremely difficult, I would just go with any SPFQ GAL.

Quote:
2) dump the PAL with a programmer and copy it to a 16V8
Whenever PLD (PAL/GAL/EPLD/CPLD) are shipped in a commercial product, they are protected against being read using a programmer. So the only way to copy them is to try to understand how the chip behaves and write your own compatible logic. This is how Tomy made the parallel cart clones. Luckily, I believe this part is configured in "simple" mode, where it preforms as an "address decoder"--like a small ROM and easy to understand.

Quote:
Trying anything else without documentation on the device would be like playing to the lottery, right?
Well, you have very good chances by using a SPFQ PLD Very Happy Also you won't damage anything if you verify that all the connections are the same from board to board on the possible output pins (12-19).
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Mystic_Merlin



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 533
Location: Bangkok
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just found that:

http://www.tototek.com/pio/main1/SUBMENU/PARTS/LINKS/OS/figpld.htm

Thanks Tomy for not taking out the page (though I dunno if it was don on purpose Wink )

Actually I made some tests with the 2 missing ICs taken from an earlier version of the SPFQ and obviously as stated by Tomy on its page it's not compatible with later revisions of the boards. The logic must be slightly different, maybe some rewiring on the board would work. I'll make some continuity tests when I have a chance.
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